Bruce Cooley Pusch

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NAMES OF INDIVIDUALS WITH PROOF ARE MARKED (P). INFORMATION ON ALL OTHER NAMES IS SPECULATIVE. My names, Bruce, Cooley and Pusch, are also three family surnames. I've found ancestors for my Bruce line back to Adam and Eve but still need ancestors for Benjamin Coley or Cooley born bet. 1615-1619 and John or Johann Pusch born abt 1841. INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW YOU MIGHT TRACE YOUR OWN LINE BACK TO ADAM AND EVE ARE IN THE NOTES ON THE PAGE FOR BRUCE (P) (NOTES) COOLEY PUSCH. REACH THAT PAGE THROUGH THE INDEX.

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  • ID: I107707
  • Name: SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) THOMASINE TREMAINE COLTON (L) SAVAGE
  • Sex: F
  • Birth: BET 1607 AND 1642
  • Burial: 24 AUG 1684 SPRINGFIELD CEMETARY, SPRINGFIELD, MA
  • ALIA: SARAH (NOTES) (BCP) COLTON OR (L) SAVAGE
  • Event: 1 AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) (lL) SAVAGE OR COLTON
  • Event: 2 AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) SAVAGE COLTON OR (L) TREMAINE
  • Event: .1. AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) (L) THOMASINE
  • Death: 23 AUG 1684 in LONGMEADOW OR SPRINGFIELD, MA
  • Birth: BET 1607 AND 1642 in WARRENDON, BUCKINGHAM OR WILTSHIRE, OR HERTFORDSHIRE, ENGLAND OR SPRINGFIELD, MA
  • Event: .1. AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) (L) TREMAINE
  • Event: .1. AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) (L) GRANT
  • Event: .1. AKA SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) (L) COULTON
  • Note:
    VARIOUS SOURCES GIVE SARAH SURNAMES OF SAVAGE, COLTON, TREMAINE AND GRANT. THEY ALSO DISAGREE ON HER PARENTAGE AND MARRIAGES.

    SARAH IS ALSO SHOWN BY SOME SOURCES AS BORN IN SPRINGFIELD, MA BEFORE IT WAS SETTLED SO THAT MUST BE WRONG.

    SOME SOURCES SAY SARAH WAS ONE PERSON. OTHER SOURCES SAY BENJAMIN HAD AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT WIVES NAMED SARAH.

    BECAUSE OF ALL THE SIMILARITIES, I AM ASSUMING JUST ONE SARAH HERE.

    1. SARAH MAY HAVE BEEN THE DAUGHTER OF THOMAS II (NOTES) (L) SAVAGE AND HANNAH OR ANN (NOTES) TYING OR (L) TYNG,

    2. SARAH MAY HAVE BEEN THE SISTER OF GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON, WHO WAS A VERY CLOSE ASSOCIATE OF HER HUSBAND BENJAMIN (BCP) (NOTES) COLEY OR (P) COOLEY, AND SHE MAY HAVE FIRST MARRIED A MAN NAMED ? SAVAGE.

    3. SHE MAY HAVE BEEN GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON'S DAUGHTER.

    4. IF SHE WAS A SISTER OF GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON, THEN HER PARENTAGE WAS IN DOUBT.

    IF THEY REALLY WERE BROTHER AND SISTER, SOME SOURCES SAY THEIR PARENTS WERE EITHER

    A. JOHN (NOTES) (L) COLTON AND (NOTES) (L) MARY

    B. JOHN (NOTES) (L) GARDINER AND (NOTES) (L) MARY

    C. JOHN (NOTES) (L) COLTON AND ( ABIGAIL (NOTES )(L) PARSONS

    D. WILLIAM (NOTES) (L) COLTON AND (NOTES) (L) ALICE.

    I HAVE COMBINED ALL THESE NAMES INTO ONE MAN, JOHN GARDINER OR WILLIAM OR ? (NOTES) (L) COLTON, AND TWO WOMEN (NOTES) (L) ALICE OR MARY AND ABIGAIL (NOTES )(L) PARSONS.

    5. SHE MAY HAVE BEEN THE DAUGHTER OF A DIFFERENT THOMAS (NOTES)(L) SAVAGE AND GRACIA (NOTES)(L) RYLES.

    6. SHE MAY HAVE HAD A FATHER WITH THE SURNAME TREMAINE GRANT OR SOME OTHER SURNAME.

    I SHOW SARAH HERE WITH UNKNOWN PARENTAGE.
    I SHOW HER FIRST MARRIED TO A MAN NAMED ? SAVAGE BEFORE HER MARRIAGE TO BENJAMIN COOLEY ALTHOUGH THIS MAY, OR MAY NOT, HAVE HAPPENED..

    I SHOW GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON AND DEBORAH GOODNER GOODINER OR GARDNER'S KNOWN DAUGHTER (ALSO NAMED SARAH COLTON) AS A SEPARATE PERSON MARRIED TO A SAMUEL GRAVES.

    AT LEAST SOME OF THESE ASSUMPTIONS MUST BE WRONG.

    THE FOLLOWING EMAIL STRING WITH DAN B. COOLEY DISCUSSES BOTH SARAH'S AND BENJAMIN'S POSSIBLE PARENTAGE.

    From: pusch@comcast.net

    To: DanBCooley

    Subject: Re: Benjamin Cooley

    Date: November 07, 2007

    Hi again Dan,

    Thanks again for all your help.

    I'll post this entire email string to Sarah's and Benjamin's RootsWeb pages as notes.

    I'm sure they will be of interest to other researchers and you may be hearing from some of them.

    Good luck with all your genealogical efforts.

    Bruce

    From: DanBCooley

    To: pusch@comcast.net

    Subject: Re: Benjamin Cooley

    Date: November 06, 2007

    Hi Bruce,

    I have a copy of a copy of page 41 (and p 40) of the CG (Cooley Genealogy) which I have attached.

    (ALTHOUGH I COULD READ THE ATTACHMENTS DAN SENT, I COULD NOT CLEARLY COPY AND PASTE THEM TO THESE NOTES. FORTUNATELY DAN INCLUDES A SYNOPSIS BELOW).

    This is Mortimer Cooley's wrap-up of what he knew about Cooleys in America early on. You'll see that item 1. is our Benjamin with his wife Sarah (Savage). Look down to item 4: "Dennis, in Stonington, d 1683 (Savage)". The Savage in these notes refers to James Savage who wrote the comprehensive work "A Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England..."

    Since someone once told me that Sarah Savage was found in the Cooley Genealogy by Mortimer Cooley, I decided to investigate. The above was what I found. Mortimer was referring to his sources for Cooleys in America. The Savage volumes only mention the name Sarah and do not speculate on her last name.

    So...if Savage is Sarah's last name, the Cooley Genealogy is not a source for that name.

    As for Benjamin's parents, since you are a member of the Cooley Assn, you know the latest is that William Colley, b. St. Albans, Hertfordshire, England and Joan Arnott are parents of a Benjamin Cooley born in Hertfordshire in 1615. The disconnect here is whether "our" Benjamin of Springfield/Longmeadow is the same Benjamin of Hertfordshire. There is strong circumstantial evidence that the two Benjamins are one in the same but no solid proof. The Association is working on the problem. My thinking is that it could well be proved in the future by DNA analyses. I think we Cooleys are lucky in that the emigration generation in England and the immigration and succeeding generations in America all spelled their surname C-O-O-L-E-Y.

    Just a glance at your index reveals double entries for the same Benjamins . This could be cleared up by referring to the Cooley Geneaology which is considered a primary source for early Cooleys. One clarification I can make: My gr(4)grandfather, Col Benjamin Cooley b. 30 Apr 1747 in Greenwich Mass (now covered over by the Quabbin Reservoir) died 27 Feb 1810 in Pittsford VT. He married on 18 Feb 1773 in Rutland County VT, Ruth Beach b. 11 Jan 1756 in Morriston, Morris County NJ. Benjamin and his half brother, Gideon, founded and were first settlers of Pittsford.

    Col. Benjamin Cooley was in a raiding party of Green Mountain Boys led by Ethan Allen along with Gen Benedict Arnold which scored the first victory of the Revolutionary War by taking Ft Ticonderoga across Lake Champlain on July 5, 1775.

    Let me know if you need anything else.

    Dan Cooley

    pusch@comcast.net wrote:

    Hi again Dan,

    Thanks for your permission to post this email string to Sarah's notes. I'll post what you have to say about Benjamin's ancestors to his notes as soon as I received it and then update my RootsWeb site so you, and anyone else, can see it.

    I'm not a member of Ancestry.com right now and can't get to that page 41in the Cooley Genealogy posted there.

    Can you tell me what it says?

    I do belong to the Cooley Family Association though and as far as I know, Benjamin's ancestry is still in doubt.

    I look forward to hearing what's on that page 41 and any new information about Benjamin.

    Bruce

    From: DanBCooley

    To: pusch@comcast.net

    Subject: Benjamin Cooley

    Date: November 03, 2007

    Dear Bruce,

    Thanks for your e-mail. The Internet has been a blessing for genealogists in many ways but it has also been a convenient way to spread misinformation very quickly.

    For all the years I've been doing my family history (since 1968) I had never seen "Savage" as a possible name for Sarah until well into this century.

    As for your questions, give me a day or two and I'll get back to you on the parentage of Benjamin Cooley.

    As for your question 2, Yes, that is fine with me.

    You might edit out some of my wordiness

    .Do you have access to the "Cooley Genealogy"? If you are a member of ancestry.com, it is available in their books and documents section. See page 41 and I'll give you my idea as to how Savage arose as a name for Sarah, wife of Benjamin.

    Cheers

    Dan Cooley
    San Mateo, Calif

    From: pusch@comcast.net

    To: DanBCooley

    Subject: Benjamin Cooley

    Date: November 02, 2007

    Hi again Dan,

    You're obviously right that a person whose parentage is unknown should not properly be shown with known parents and I had thought my flags, such as (NO PROOF) inserted in the person's names accomplished that.

    This is not sufficient for you, and I imagine others, so in this case I have changed my records to shown Sarah with no parents and my RootsWeb site will appear that way next time I update it.

    I like to show possible parents for I enjoy tracing the lines further back but I guess I can do this without listing them in my records as possible parents and have now done so in this case.

    You didn't answer my two questions to you.

    1. What do you think of the possible parentage of Benjamin Cooley and the way I show that?

    2. Is it OK to add this email string, and your name and email address, to the notes on these individual pages?

    Bruce

    From: DanBCooley dbcooley@rcn.com

    Hi Bruce,

    You've answered your own question: "On what basis do you decide what is
    "legitimate data" and what is not when discussing an unknown?" Because
    other people do it has never been a legitimate excuse for doing anything.

    Professional genealogists (I am NOT one) all agree that Internet fami
    trees are the worst possible "source" for for "legitimate" family
    history data. I have done a similar search as you have done and I would
    never think of citing such nebulous sources as other databases on the
    Internet unless those sources cite at least secondary proof of a name or
    fact. But again, you have cited NO SOURCE for the name "Sarah Savage".

    Standard genealogical procedure is to place the following: [?] in
    any field in which someone or something or some place is unknown. But
    you have not done that, not even with your system of (P) or (L). You
    have Sarah Savage and parents HARDWIRED into your database.

    Name: SARAH (NOTES) (NO PROOF) SAVAGE (L) COLTON

    and right below

    Father: THOMAS II (L) SAVAGE b: BET 1592 AND 1595 in CHESTER, CHESHIR
    ENGLAND

    Mother: HANNAH OR ANN TYING OR (L) TYNG b: BET 1592 AND 1600 in BOSTON, LINCOLN, ENGLAND

    This is extremely misleading. Adding an "(L)" in there doesn't change
    anything. Adding parents to a (L) magnifies the error 100 times. It's
    like saying "If Sarah's surname were Savage then her parents could have
    been Thomas II Savage and Hannah Tyng". That is logic gone wild since
    you know nothing about and have no source for Sarah Savage in the first
    place. This line of reasoning is known as a counter-factual conditional...
    the premise is wrong so anything else is right. You could have put Smi
    or Jones or Anderson or any name in there, and be just as "right" about
    the parents as you think you are now with all those Savage couples.

    Bottom line: Sarah [?] or Sarah unk or Sarah, wife of Benjamin or ev
    Sarah (L) would be acceptable. If you want to place research notes with
    Sarah [?] just as you have done with the hardwired Sarah Savage Colton
    then that's fine. However, I would not go so far as to speculate on
    parents. You don't know what the original gal's name was in the first
    place.

    My method is to enter First Name: _Sarah__, wife of Benjamin Cooley_
    then Surname: _[?]_. I do it that way so I know to whom the unknown
    Sarah belongs when I look in the index of my genealogy program, Legacy.
    In Sarah's information I have a note about this last name controversy.

    By the way, wife Sarah is not associated with "Benjamin the Original" in
    your database. She pops up as a mother of Benjamin II. How that could
    have happened?

    Next e-mail I'll give you a plausible source for the name Savage (hint:
    see page 41 of the Cooley Genealogy).

    Dan Cooley
    San Mateo, Calif

    pusch@comcast.net wrote:

    Hi again Dan,

    I honestly don't know where I got the name Savage as a possible maiden name
    for Sarah but it probably was from another RootsWeb site,

    If you do a RootsWeb advanced search for a Sarah Savage with a birthdate of
    1620 plus or minus 20 years, and exact birthdate of 1684 with a husband named
    Cooley and showing descendants, you come up with 94 hits. 94 different people
    list her this way and I probably got my information from one or more of them.

    As I said, I'm not wedded to the way I show it now. I think it's clear from
    my notes and the way I list her, that it's all speculation.

    How do you think it should be shown? Do you really think we should just
    ignore those 94 people who list her that way?

    Here again is what I say in the notes on her page. How would you change it?

    VARIOUS SOURCES GIVE SARAH SURNAMES OF SAVAGE, COLTON, TREMAINE AND GRANT.
    THEY ALSO DISAGREE ON HER PARENTAGE AND MARRIAGES.

    SARAH IS ALSO SHOWN BY SOME SOURCES AS BORN IN SPRINGFIELD, MA BEFORE IT WAS SETTLED SO THAT MUST BE WRONG.

    SOME SOURCES SAY SARAH WAS ONE PERSON. OTHER SOURCES SAY BENJAMIN HAD AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT WIVES NAMED SARAH.

    BECAUSE OF ALL THE SIMILARITIES, I AM ASSUMING JUST ONE SARAH HERE.

    1. SARAH MAY HAVE BEEN THE DAUGHTER OF THOMAS II (L) SAVAGE AND HANNAH OR ANN TYING OR (L) TYNG,

    2. SARAH MAY HAVE BEEN THE SISTER OF GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON, WHO WAS A VERY CLOSE ASSOCIATE OF HER HUSBAND BENJAMIN (BCP) (NOTES) COLEY OR (P) COOLEY, AND SHE MAY HAVE FIRST MARRIED A MAN NAMED ? SAVAG

    3. SHE MAY HAVE BEEN GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON'S DAUGHTER.

    4. SHE MAY HAVE BEEN THE DAUGHTER OF A DIFFERENT THOMAS (L) SAVAGE AND GRACIA RYLES.

    5. SHE MAY HAVE HAD A FATHER WITH THE SURNAME TREMAINE GRANT OR SOME OTHER SURNAME.

    I SHOW SARAH HERE AS THE DAUGHTER OF THOMAS II (L) SAVAGE AND HANNAH OR ANN TYING OR (L) TYNG (POSSIBILITY # 1. ABOVE.

    OTHER SOURCES SAY SARAH'S PARENTS WERE THE OTHER THOMAS SAVAGE, THOMAS (NOTES) (L) SAVAGE, AND GRACIA (NOTES) (L) RYLES.

    STILL OTHER SOURCES SHOW HER AS A SISTER OF GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON AND DAUGHTER OF EITHER GEORGE (NOTES) WOOLWORTH (L) COLTON OR, AS HIS SISTER, A DAUGHTER OF JOHN GARDINER OR ? (NOTES) (L) COLTON.

    I SHOW HER FIRST MARRIED TO A MAN NAMED ? SAVAGE BEFORE HER MARRIAGE TO BENJAMIN COOLEY ALTHOUGH THIS MAY, OR MAY NOT, HAVE HAPPENED..

    I SHOW GEORGE COLTON AND DEBORAH GOODNER OR GARDNER'S DAUGHTER (ALSO NAMED SARAH COLTON) AS A SEPARATE PERSON MARRIED TO A SAMUEL GRAVES.

    AT LEAST SOME OF THESE ASSUMPTIONS MUST BE WRONG.

    THERE IS NO PROOF OF SARAH'S ANCESTRY SO ALL THE ANCESTORS I SHOW FOR HER FROM HERE BACK ARE SPECULATIVE.

    Also, is it OK to add this email string, and your name and email address, to
    these notes?

    Bruce

    From: DanBCooley

    Hi Bruce,

    Where did YOU get the name "Savage" as a surname for Sarah, wife of
    Benjamin Cooley?

    Dan Cooley
    San Mateo, Calif

    pusch@comcast.net wrote:

    Hi Dan,

    Thank you for your email.

    I agree that Sarah's surname is unknown but I can't understand how you can
    so positively say that, "ONLY TWO NAMES HAVE BEEN SPECULATED ON AS HER SURNAME. ONE IS "COLTON" (THERE WAS A SARAH COLTON LIVING IN LONGMEADOW AT THE TIME) AND THE OTHER IS "TREMAINE" (AN ASSOCIATE OR PARTNER OF BENJAMIN). OTHERWISE, THERE ARE NO SOURCES NOR ANY LEGITIMATE DATA POINTING TOWARD SARAH'S LAST NAME."

    On what basis do you decide what is "legitimate data" and what is not when discussing an unknown?

    I'm sure the sources that speculated the other names thought they had was some basis for their belief however tenuous.

    I would be glad to change the parentage to show one of the other choices as her preferred parents. I list five possibilities in my notes on Sarah's page,

    Would you like me to change it to show her possible parents as one of the other four?

    Or, do you have a sixth suggestion?

    Equally important is the question of Benjamin's ancestry. What do you think of that?

    I would also like to post this email string including your name and address in Sarah's notes to help future researchers. Would this be OK?

    I look forward to your reply/

    Bruce

    From: DanBCooley

    BRUCE,

    I'VE JUST FOUND YOUR DATABASE. IT IS IMPRESSIVELY LARGE.

    ONE THING I MUST WRITE YOU ABOUT IS "SAVAGE" AS A POSSIBLE NAME FOR BENJAMIN'S WIFE. I'M ON A "CRUSADE" TO DISABUSE EVERYONE ABOUT THAT NAME. ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR USING THAT NAME CANNOT BE FOUND. THERE IS SIMPLY NO SOURCE FOR IT AND ESPECIALLY NONE IN THE "COOLEY GENEALOGY". THEN, TO GO AHEAD AND SPECIFY PARENTS FOR A SARAH SAVAGE IS VERY MISLEADING. THIS INTRODUCES A NAME IN THE COOLEY ANCESTRY THAT HAS NO SOURCES FOR IT'S USE AT ALL.

    ONLY TWO NAMES HAVE BEEN SPECULATED ON AS HER SURNAME. ONE IS "COLTON" (THERE WAS A SARAH COLTON LIVING IN LONGMEADOW AT THE TIME) AND THE OTHER IS "TREMAINE" (AN ASSOCIATE OR PARTNER OF BENJAMIN).

    OTHERWISE, THERE ARE NO SOURCES NOR ANY LEGITIMATE DATA POINTING TOWARD SARAH'S LAST NAME. FOR ACCURACY, HER NAME SHOULD LOOK AS FOLLOWS IN ANY DATABASE: SARAH [?] - WIFE OF BENJAMIN COOLEY.

    DAN COOLEY - 11TH GEN DESCENDANT OF BENJAMIN AND SARAH




    Father: THOMAS II (NOTES) (L) SAVAGE b: BET 1592 AND 1595 in CHESTER, CHESHIRE, ENGLAND
    Mother: HANNAH OR ANN (NOTES) TYING OR (L) TYNG b: BET 1592 AND 1600 in BOSTON, LINCOLN, ENGLAND

    Marriage 1 BENJAMIN (BCP) (NOTES) COLEY OR (P) COOLEY b: BET 25 FEB 1614 AND 1619 in TRING PARISH OR ST. ALBANS PARISH, OR GREAT MENDEN, HERTFORDSHIRE, ENGLAND?
    • Married: BET 1641 AND 19 APR 1644 in ORRIN, GUERNSEY, CHANNEL ISLANDS, OR HERTFORDSHIRE, ENGLAND OR SPRINGFIELD, MA
    • Married: ABT 1642 in ENGLAND
    Children
    1. Has Children BETHIA OR BETHIAH (NOTES) (L) COOLEY b: BET 1632 AND 16 SEP 1648 in PAIGNTON, DEVON, ENGLAND OR SPRINGFIELD OR LONGMEADOW, HAMPDEN, , MA
    2. Has Children OBIDIAH OBADIAH OR OBEDIAH (NOTES) P) COOLEY b: BET 27 JAN 1646 AND 27 SEP 1647 in SPRINGFIELD, MA
    3. Has Children ELIAKIM (NOTES) COOLEY b: BET 08 JAN 1648 AND 1650 in SPRINGFIELD, MA
    4. Has No Children ABELANAH OR ABIGAIL COOLEY b: ABT 1650
    5. Has Children DANIEL (NOTES) COOLEY b: BET 05 FEB AND 02 MAY 1651 in LONGMEADOW OR SPRINGFIELD, MA
    6. Has Children SARAH (NOTES) COOLEY b: BET 27 DEC 1653 AND 27 DEC 1654 in SPRINGFIELD, MA
    7. Has Children BENJAMIN II (NOTES) COOLEY b: 01 SEP 1656 in SPRINGFIELD, MA
    8. Has Children MARY (NOTES) COOLEY b: BET 22 AND 29 JUN 1659 in SPRINGFIELD, MA
    9. Has Children JOSEPH (NOTES) COOLEY b: BET 06 MAR 1660 AND 1662 in SPRINGFIELD, MA

    Marriage 2 ? SAVAGE b: ABT 1600

    • Index | Descendancy | Register | Pedigree | Ahnentafel | Download GEDCOM | Public Profile | Add Post-em

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