H. Pike Oliver Family Tree

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  • ID: I0153
  • Name: Richard Oliver 1 2 1
  • Sex: M
  • Birth: 1778 in Upper Gwnnws, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
  • Birth: 1778 in Wales 2
  • Death: 21 JUL 1855 in Tynpontbren, Yspty Ystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
  • Death: 21 JUL 1855 in Tynypontbren, Yspyty Ystwyth, Wales 2
  • Death: SEP 1855 in Cardiganshire, United Kingdom 1
  • Death: SEP 1855 in Cardiganshire, United Kingdom 1
  • Change Date: 6 JAN 2005
  • Reference Number: 153
  • Note:
    The following is excerpted from Edward T. Porter's book, The Olivers of Cardiganshire -- 1778 - 1993. While no longer in print, the book is available on compact disc. Contact H. Pike Oliver via e-mail -- pike @ urbanexus . com -- who will forward the inquiry to Mr. Porter.

    Richard Oliver, whose parentage we do not know, was born somewhere in the parish of Llanfihangel-Y-Creuddyn in Cardiganshire, Wales sometime between 1771 and 1778. There were many Olivers living in the vacinity of Cwmystwyth in the eastern part of that parish at that time, and it is our belief that this is the area from which he came.

    We are uncertain about the date of his birth as we have only the three records mentioned in the foregoing pages. Which of the references, if any of When a careful genealogist sets out to find missing parents for and individual who was born in this timeframe, he remembers the naming patterns most often used in the families. The first male child was generally named for the father or the grandfather. The first female child was given the mother's name or that of the paternal grandmother. Thus, in the case of Richard Oliver of Pantgwyn, we would look at his firstborn children's names.

    Assuming that Richard of Pantgwyn and Richard of Dolaugleision were NOT the same person, Richard of Pantgwyn's first male child was named John. His first daughter was named Margaret. Richard Oliver's mother may well have been the Sarah Oliver who died at or near the home of John Oliver of Ffair Rhos at the age of 92 and was buried at the parish church of Yspyty Ystwyth on 26 February, 1825.

    Richard had a daughter named Sarah. We have searched wills in the parishes that surround Gwnnws but have not found one that gives us definitive evidence that the person who died was Richard's father or mother. There was a John and Margaret (Roberts) Oliver living at the farm Penddolfawr, Gwnnws parish, near Strata Florida Abbey in 1783. This John Oliver was the older brother of William Oliver in the Gwnnws will.

    In tracing that John Oliver, one couldconclude without proof that he is the best candidate. This would be especially so if it could be prove that this John lived in Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn in the1770s. There was a John Oliver living in the mining village called Cwmystwyth, in the parish of Llanfihangely-Creuddyn in the 1770s whose wife's name is unknown. He is thought to have lived in Gwnnws as well. One unidentified John Oliver was buried at Ysbyty Ystwyth in 1810, but no age for him at death was given. The Cwmystwyth Olivers are detailed in Appendix G of this book.

    Another more remote candidate for Richard's sire lived at the house in Caron Uwch Clawdd called Bryngorse. He was also a Richard Oliver, a stone mason, and his wife's name was also Elizabeth. However, it appears that neither he nor his wife were quite old enough to be Richard's father if their reported ages were correct. Our Richard Oliver, was somewhat unusual for a craftsman and a miner in that he was able to write his own name and did truly own a small holding of farm land known as Pantgwyn in the parish of Gwnnws Ucha in Cardiganshire.

    Finally on learning of the appearance of early lost Gwnnws and Llanafan parish records in March, 1990, we wrote to have them read, and the marriage was found.

    Richard Oliver, then a slater, married at Gwnnwson 16 December, 1803, Elizabeth Evans who was born, according to her death certificate in 1774 in Cardiganshire, but we have not found a baptismal record for her at Gwnnws, the parish in which she was in residence when she married. She died of "Colic" at Pantgwyn in Gwnnws Upper on 9 September, 1844, and was buried on 11 September, 1844 at Strata Florida.

    Present at her death was her son John Oliver whose residence at that time was noted as "Rhos Fair". The variant spelling for this hamlet, nearest to Pantgwyn, is "Ffair Rhos" or, in English, "Fair on the Moor."

    In fol. 22 v. Gwnnws Marriages: "Richard Oliver, bachelor, and Elizabeth Evans, spinster, both of this parish were legally married at this church by Banns this sixteenth day of December, 1803 by me, David Hughes Minister of Gwnnws. This marriage was solemnized by us: Richard Oliver, and Elizabeth (her mark) Evans, in the presence of us: Edward Evans and Daniel Evans."

    In the above marriage record the first named witness appears to have been Edward Evans of "Rhosffair," born about 1771, who was doubtless Elizabeth's brother. We then began a second search for the parents of Elizabeth Evans. This search is as yet not complete. To date we have uncovered several possible Gwnnws and Caron Uwch Clawdd Evanses, but here again, we cannot find a baptismal record. We have not yet researched the wills in these parishes. As in both cases, one does not know whether to look for Evans as a surname or Evan as a given name. The data that we have collected is revealed in Appendix A. Also found in the old volumes of Gwnnws parish records in 1990 were the baptisms of several of Richard and Elizabeth's children:

    Fol. 4v. Gwnnws Parish Registers: 1760-1811

    17 Aug., 1802 John, s/o Richard Oliver by his wife Elizabeth

    4 Mar., 1804 Margaret, d/o Richard Oliver by Elizabeth

    15 Sept., 1806 Richard, s/o Richard Oliver, slater, by his wife Elizabeth

    9 May, 1807 Sarah, d/o Richard Oliver by Elizabeth his wife

    Fol. 5v. Gwnnws Parish Registers: 1760-1811

    10 Oct., 1809 Richard, s/o Richard Oliver by Elizabeth his wife

    It is interesting to note that the entry for the baptism of John Oliver, above, states that Elizabeth was Richard's wife. Our Richard Oliver, farmer and retired lead miner, died at the house called "Tynypontbren" in the parish of Yspyty Ystwyth on 21 July, 1855. Tynypontbren was the home of his son, Richard Oliver. Present at his death was an unidentified lady, Elizabeth Jones, of the house called "Cloddie" (or Cloddiau) in the parish of Yspyty Ystwyth. She was a near neighbor of the Richard Olivers of Tynypontbren. We suspect that she was actually Richard's daughter. We have no proof at this time that this is accurate because her marriage to her husband at the time shows her name to have been Elizabeth Thomas. The suggestion is that she could have been married as many as two times before, and thus her maiden name could have been Oliver. Richard's daughter Elizabeth had married an Evans and then a Davies (or Jones) prior to this date. The parish registers at Strata Florida do not show a burial for Richard Oliver, and the records for Ysbyty Ystwyth for that year are missing.

    Here we digress briefly to confirm the fact that John Oliver, shown in the foregoing baptism, which obviously occurred before the marriage of his parents, was truly their son, and not that of another couple with the same names. Further proof that Richard and Elizabeth Oliver

    had a son named John is given below in a direct copy of the will of John Oliver of Blaenpentre, Ffair-rhos, Gwnnws, dated 5 August, 1853; probated in 1854 in the Diocese of St. David, Co. Cardigan. No. 268:

    "To my wife Mary Oliver - my land and tenement

    To my son John - the said land after the decease of his mother, and he to assist to maintain his youngest brothers until they can maintain themselves

    To my daughter Elizabeth - one heiffer

    To my daughter Margaret - one heiffer

    To my son Evan - one heiffer and half an acre of land adjoining Ebenezer Thomas's land to build a house and garden if he assist his youngest brothers

    To my son Lewis - one heifer

    To my sons Thomas and William - one heiffer each.

    Son John to pay the mortgage money that I owe Mr. Hugh Jones"
    John Oliver (signature)


    Richard Oliver, senír. and Hugh Jones

    "2 October, 1854 Richard Oliver of Pantgwyn, Gwnnws, gent, one of the witnesses, declared that the alterations had been made to the will before he signed it."

    "5 June, 1854 Administration was granted to Mary Oliver, widow and relect of the deceased and residuary legatee. "

    " John Oliver died 10 August, 1853. Effects under 20 pounds."

    We have already shown John's probable relationship with Richard's wife, Elizabeth when he was present at her death. It was not uncommon in those times for a child to be born before a couple was married. Proof of other children of Richard and Elizabeth Oliver can be shown in the following baptisms in the Gwnnws Parish registers from 1811-1864:

    31 May, 1812 William, s/o Richard Oliver by his wife Elizabeth, Pantgwyn

    23 June, 1814 William, s/o Richard and ElizabethOliver, Pantgwyn

    25 Nov., 1821 Thomas, s/o Richard and Elizabeth Oliver, Pantgwyn

    Parents losing children often named a second child the same name as the one who died. Thus, there are two Williams, and two Richards in this family. Note that no baptism has been found for either Elizabeth or Lewis. Fortunately, in the case of Lewis, the names of both father's and their addresses were shown on his marriage certificate. Another tie can be seen in this direct quotation from the book, "The Welsh Community of Waukesha County, Wisconsin:"

    "Two brothers, Lewis and William Oliver were born in Cardiganshire, their parents were Richard and Elizabeth Oliver. They came to this country in 1847. Lewis Oliver lived in this community for 14 years, and the rest of his life in Dodgeville. He was received into the church in Bark River, as a convert of Humphrey Jones. William Oliver and wife spent their days in our community. Their last home was on sections 7 and 18, town of Genesee. The William Oliver children: Margaret, Elizabeth, John F., Jennie, Sarah, Anna, Thomas C., George G., William W."

    The list of children of Richard and Elizabeth Oliver expands as one reads the Gwnnws parish records for the reading of banns for marriages, in parish register no. 6 for the years 1823-1881:

    1825 John Oliver, Pantgwyn, parish of Gwnnws, and Mary Jones, Cornwall, parish of Caron, Banns read 4 Aug., 11 and 18 Sept.

    1825 Jacob Jones, Nantyberws, parish of Ysp. Yst. and Sarah Oliver, Pantgwyn,this parish, Banns read 23 and 30 Oct., and 6 Nov.

    1832 Richard Oliver, Pantgwyn, this parish, and Margaret Rogers, Llwynllwyd, this parish, Banns read16, 23, and 30 Sept.

    1835- 36 William Oliver, Pantgwyn, this parish, and Mary Jones, Tynypompren, parish of Lledrod, Banns read 27 Dec., 2 and 10 Jan.

    1837 Lewis Oliver, Pantgwyn, this parish, and Mary Lewis, Claerwen, parish of Cwmteudder,

    These Banns reading dates are shown as proof that these young adults were residing at the house Pantgwyn when their marriages were to take place. The marriage certificates or records will be shown when we address the specific individuals. The marriage entries do not always show the residences.

    Before proceeding it should be explained that in the Established Church of England, and the Anglican Church in general, the reading of a notice proclaiming the intention of two people to marry for three consecutive Sundays was a prerequisite to being married in the Church. In this way anyone in the congregation could have ample opportunity to object to the marriage prior to the date of the wedding.

    After the Banns were read, the couple could elect to go through the normal ritual in the church, or simply consider themselves married. The whole process of Banns could be avoided if one had the price of a marriage license. Often you will read that someone was married "by Banns" or "by License" This was the way it was. In any event, no one could be married by the Established Church without first having been baptized. It should also be noted that the Welsh Catholic Church had been destroyed, but Welsh people continued to adhere to many of the old Laws (Hywel), which differed in several ways from the English Catholic Law. Principal in these differences was the treatment of illegitimacies.

    The Welsh Law forgave the child of his parent's transgressions, while the English did not. Such children in England were once considered non-citizens.Only after Henry VII was there allowed leniency, as he was half Welsh. Marriages under the Ancient Law were not considered as sacraments. A couple could simple declare to those about them that they were husband and wife.In the early 1800s, nearly every mother gave birth to a child every year or two years, one looks in the parish entries for baptisms and burials within months after a marriage date is known. As we have stated, it was not unusual for many of the families to have begun prior to marriage in those days anywhere in Europe.

    Richard Oliver was doubtless a loyal and practicing member of the Established Church of England. It was he who registered the births of many of his grandchildren, and who had his wife, two children and two grandchildren buried at Strata Florida. At least two of his sons, John and Lewis also seem to have been communicants of the Established Church. That he is known to have been able to write is acknowledgement that he was at least partially educated.

    While searching for family gravestones at the Strata Florida church cemetery, a stone for a Margaret Jones was discovered. It read:

    " Here lies Margaret Jones, wife of Edward Jones of Hafod-gau, Ysbyty Ystwyth parish, eldest daughter of Richard Oliver, died on 9 December, 1823 at the age of 21. Here also lies the body of Richard Jones, son of Edward and Margaret Jones, Hafod-gau who died 1824 at the age of 2".

    Her marriage to Edward Jones was witnessed by John Evans and David Rees on 4 January, 1822 at Ysbyty Ystwyth. Edward Jones had previousy married a Mary
    Jones in 1820 who had died, but that marriage was witnessed by Richard Oliver and John Evans. John Evans is believed to be the brother of Elizabeth (Evans) Oliver, the bride's mother.

    We are relatively certain that there was still another daughter named Elizabeth. This Elizabeth Oliver married Richard Evans at Ysbyty Ystwyth church on 9 February, 1816 with witnesses Richard Oliver and John Jenkins. Again, there seems to have been no other Richard Oliver than Richard Oliver of Pantgwyn in Gwnnws. Richard Evans died in 1824 and Elizabeth remarried on 22 February, 1833 to David Jones or David Davies.

    This is confusing because the marriage record states that David Jones married Elizabeth Evans, but the groom signed his name as David Davies (Perhaps his father was David Jones - a patronymic naming). This second marriage for Elizabeth was witnessed by Richard Oliver and Jacob Jones (her father and her brother-inlaw).

    We are most curious about this Elizabeth being the possible Elizabeth who was the witness to Richard Oliver's death, though such an idea has so far no basis in fact.

    The author is still searching for another possible daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Oliver named Mary. One Mary Oliver of a likely age lived at Cwmgwyddyl, Gwnnws parish in 1841 married to still another Edward Jones, or perhaps the very same Edward Jones. To date there is no evidence that she was related.

    Marriage 1 Elizabeth Evans b: 1774 in Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    • Married: 16 DEC 1803 in Gwnns, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK 3
    • Note: See image of marriage certificate attached to record for Richard Oliver,father of Wm Oliver II
    1. Has Children John Oliver b: 1802
    2. Has Children Margaret Oliver b: 1803 in Pantgwn, Gwnnws, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    3. Has Children Elizabeth Oliver b: 1805 in Gwnnws, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    4. Has Children Richard Oliver b: 1806 in Gwnnws, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    5. Has Children Sarah Oliver b: 3 MAY 1807 in Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    6. Has No Children William Oliver b: 1812
    7. Has Children William Oliver b: 1814 in Pantgwyn, Upper Gwnnws, Cardiganshire, Wales, UK
    8. Has Children Lewis Oliver b: 1817
    9. Has No Children Thomas Oliver b: NOV 1821

    1. Title: England and Wales, Death Index: 1837-1983
      Author: FreeBMD
      Publication: Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2006
      Note: General Register Office, England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes, London, England: General Register Office
      Note: www.ancestry.com
      Media: Ancestry.com
      Text: Online publication - FreeBMD. England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2006.Original data - General Register Office. England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes. London, England: General Register Office, © Crown copyright. Published by permission of the Controller of HMSO and the Office for National Statistics. You must not copy on, transfer or reproduce records without the prior permission of ONS. Database Copyright © 1998-2003 Graham Hart, Ben Laurie, Camilla von Massenbach and David Mayall.
    2. Title: One World Tree (sm)
      Author: Ancestry.com
      Publication: Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., n.d.
      Note: www.ancestry.com
      Media: Ancestry.com
      Text: Online publication - Ancestry.com. OneWorldTree [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc.
    3. Title: Oliver-Evans marriage, 16 Dec 1803 - Handwritten certificate
      Publication: Copy of original document
      Note: ABBR Oliver-Evans marriage, 16 Dec 1803 - Handwritten certificateTEXT Richard Oliver Bachelor and Elizabeth Evans Sprinster both of this Parsihwee legally married at this Church by Barnns this Sixteenth Day of Dec 1803 by me XX David Hughes Minister of Gwnnws

      This marriage was solemnized between us -- signed in Richard Oliver's own hand and the mark of X for Elizabeth Evans

      In the Presescence of us - signed by Edward Evans & Daniel Evans
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