Bruce Cooley Pusch

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  • ID: I4773
  • Name: WILLIAM II (NOTES) SURRY DE WARENNE (L) WARREN
  • Sex: M
  • Birth: BET 24 JUN 1065 AND 1081 in WARENNE OR LEWES, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
  • Burial: LEWES, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
  • ALIA: AKA WILLIAM II (NOTES) 2ND EARL SURRY (L) DE WARENNE
  • Title: 2ND EARL OF SURRY
  • Event: 1 AKA WILLIAM II (NOTES) 2ND EARL SURRY DE WARENNE (L) DE WARREN
  • Event: 2 AKA WILLIAM II (NOTES) (L) DE WARENNE 2ND EARL SURRY
  • Event: 3 AKA 2ND EARL SURRYWILLIAM II (NOTES) (L) DE WARENNE
  • Event: .1. AKA WILLIAM II (NOTES) SURRY DE WARENNE (L) WARENNE
  • Death: 11 MAY 1138 in ENGLAND
  • Note:
    SOME SOURCES SHOW, AND I SHOW HERE, THE PARENTS OF WILLIAM II (NOTES) SURRY DE WARENNE (L) WARREN BORN BET. 24 Jun 1065-1081 AS WILLIAM I (NOTES) DE WARREN (L) DE WARENNE AND GUNDRED GUNDRADA (NOTES) FLEMING OF (L) ENGLAND.

    OTHER SOURCES SHOW HIS MOTHER AS GUNDRED-GUNDRADA (NOTES) OF (L) FLEMING ANOTHER OF HIS FATHER WILLIAM'S WIVES.

    ALSO, SOME SOURCES SAY WILLIAM WAS THE FATHER OF HENRY (NOTE) EARL HUNTINGDON PRINCE (L) SCOTLAND BUT HE IS NOT SHOWN SO HERE BECAUSE SHOWING MORE THAN ONE SET OF PARENTS COULD CAUSE MY "FAMILY TREE" PROGRAM TO MALFUNCTION.

    THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION WAS RECEIVED FROM Alton Rogers aer437@yahoo.com IN APRIL 2009.

    THE PORTION OF THE INFORMATION HE GAVE ME RELATING TO THIS PERSON IS POSTED BELOW (THE INFORMATION RELATING TO OTHERS IS POSTED ON THEIR INDIVIDUAL PAGES)

    file: More 14

    OUR 8TH TO 12TH CENTURY FRANCE ROYAL ANCESTRY
    Including the family of French noble lady Elizabeth de Vermandois and her husband Robert de Beaumont, a commander at the Battle of Hastings, who were ancestors of Richard Strongbow de Clare, the Norman Conqueror of Ireland.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The adultery of Elizabeth de Vermandois with William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey:

    Elizabeth apparently tired of her aging husband at some point during their marriage and the historian Planche says (1874) that the Countess was seduced by or fell in love with a younger nobleman, William de Warenne (c.1071-11 May 1138) himself the thwarted suitor of Edith of Scotland, Queen consort of Henry I of England, which he quite resented. William’s mother Gundreda was said to want a royal bride for him, and Elizabeth fitted his requirements, even though she was also another man’s wife.

    In 1115 the Countess was apparently carried off or abducted by Warenne, which abduction apparently concealed a long-standing affair. There was some kind of separation or divorce between Meulan and his wife, which however did not permit her to marry her lover.

    In the book “The Beaumonts in History” it states “Towards the end of his life, she (Isabel/Elizabeth) deserted him and attached herself to William de Warenne, second Earl of Surrey, and by him she had one son and two daughters”.

    The Beaumont book also states:
    “At the end of his life he entered the Abbey of S. Peters at Preaux, which had been founded by his father. He died there and was buried in the Chapter House 5th June 1118.
    His heart was enclosed in a leaden casket and sent to S. John’s Hospital, founded by himself, at Brackley, Northants (Northamptonshire). It was kept there up to the 14th century and then lost. He was almost, if not quite, the last of the Barons, then living, who came to England with the Conqueror. He had issue three sons and six daughters”.

    The elderly Count of Meulan died, supposedly of chagrin and mortification in being thus publicly humiliated by his wife, in the Abbey of Preaux, Normandy on 5 June 1118, leaving his properties to his two elder sons whom he had carefully educated.
    And according to Henry of Huntingdon, Robert died of shame after “a certain earl carried off the lady he had espoused, either by some intrigue or by force and stratagem.”
    ----------------------------------
    Elizabeth’s first marriage with Robert de Beaumont produced 9 children - 3 sons (including twin elder sons) and 6 daughters. Two of their children were our ancestors -
    1. Sir Robert de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Leicester -see files MCA5B # 1, SH1A # 4 & HS2 # 5.
    2. And their daughter Elisabeth (Isabella) de Beaumont, who became one of the youngest mistresses of King Henry I. It is unclear whether her mother’s own life or her eldest brother’s political and personal travails in this period played any part in this decision. Before her mother died, Isabel became the wife of Gilbert de Clare, and later (1147) Earl of Pembroke, so had adopted a more conventional life like her mother . Their son Richard Strongbow de Clare was the Conqueror of Ireland and he was father-in-law of Sir William Marshal.
    For Isabella de Beaumont and her marriage to Gilbert “Strongbow” de Clare, see More 1 # 8 & # 13 following >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    -----------------------------------------------------
    (2) Elizabeth’s second marriage to William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey.

    Sometime after the death of her first husband, Robert de Beaumont, she married her longtime lover, William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey.

    By William, it is alleged, she already had several children (all born apparently during her marriage to Meulan). She also had at least one daughter born while living out of wedlock with Warenne (1115-1118). It is unclear whether this daughter was Ada de Warenne (our ancestor), wife of Henry of Scotland or Gundrede de Warenne, wife of Roger de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Warwick (her half-brother’s first cousin).

    William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey (also: Hastings files MH1A-1 & MH1G-2)
    He was born c.1071 and died 11 May 1138.
    He was the son of William de Warenne, 1st Earl of Surrey, who had served at the Battle of Hastings, one of 20 whose service there was confirmed.

    From pages 106 and 107 of the 1848 book ‘The Roll of Battle Abbey’ regarding William de Warenne, 2nd Earl of Surrey:
    ‘William de Warren, Earl of Warren and Surrey, who m. Elizabeth, dau. Of the great Earl of Vermandois, and widow of Robert, Earl of Mellent, and dying in 1135, left issue, William de Warren, Earl of Warren and Surrey, a crusader, who only dau. and heir, Isabel de Warren m. 1st., William de Blois, Earl of Moreton, natural son of King Stephen, but by him had no issue: and 2ndly, Hameline Plantagenet, (natural brother of Henry II.,) who
    assumed the surname Warren, and became Earl of Surrey. By this Earl, Isabel left at her decease, 1198, a son William Warren (Plantagenet), Earl of Warren and Surrey, who m. twice, and had with a dau. Isabel, who m. Hugh de Albini, Earl of Arundel, but d.s.p., one son, John Warren, Earl of Warren and Surrey, who m. Alice, dau. of Hugh le Brun, Earl of March, and half-sister, by his mother, of Henry III., and had one son and two daus.,
    viz: 1. William, slain at a tournament at Croydon, leaving issue , a son, John, Earl of
    Warren and Surrey, who died s.p. in 1347, and a dau. an eventual heiress, Alice, wife of Edmund Fitz-Alan, Earl of Arundel, ancestor, by her, of the Dukes of Norfolk.’

    After being involved in Robert Curthose’s (King Henry’s brother) abortive 1101 invasion of England and losing his possessions there and being exiled to Normandy, he was finally able to receive his possessions back and was subsequently loyal to Henry. Afterwards, with his loyalty thus proven, he became more prominent at Henry’s court.

    And in 1106, ironically, William was one of the commanders on Henry’s side (against Robert Curthose) at the Battle of Tinchebray, where also his wife‘s first husband (at that time), Robert de Beaumont commanded.

    William fought at the Battle of Bremule in 1119 and was at Henry I’s deathbed in 1135.

    The children of Elizabeth de Vermandois & William de Warenne:
    They had 3 sons and 2 daughters, including a son and daughter that were our ancestors:
    (1) William de Warenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey, whose daughter Isabelle de Warenne, Countess of Surrey, married Hamelin Plantagenet, an illegitimate half-brother of King Henry II of England. They were also our ancestors - see file Skepper 3A # 4 &
    Skepper 3B # 2.
    (2) Ada de Warenne (d. c.1178) who married Henry of Scotland, 3rd Earl of Huntingdon, younger son of King David I of Scotland. See file # More 4 # 11.

    The later life of Elizabeth de Vermandois is not known.

    For more on these persons, see file More 1 # 8:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    13. Isabella de Beaumont married 1130 Gilbert Strongbow Fitz Gilbert de Clare
    14. Richard Strongbow Fitz Gilbert de Clare married 1171 Aoife of Leinster
    15. Isabel de Clare married 1189 William Marshal 1st Earl of Pembroke
    16. Matilda (Maud) Marshal married c.1225 William de Warenne 6th Earl of Surrey
    17. John de Warenne married 1247 Alice de Lusignan
    18. Eleanor de Warenne married 1268 Henry de Percy Baron of Topcliffe
    19. Henry de Percy 1st Lord married c.1295-1300 Eleanor de Arundel
    20. Henry de Percy 2nd Lord married c.1319-20 Idonea de Clifford
    21. Henry de Percy 3rd Lord married c.1334 Mary of Lancaster
    22. Henry de Percy 4th Lord married 1358 Margaret de Neville
    23. Henry Hotspur de Percy married c.1379 Elizabeth de Mortimer
    24. Elizabeth Percy married c.1404 John Clifford 7th Lord
    25. Thomas Clifford 8th Lord married c.1424 Joan (Jane) Dacre
    26. Maud (Matilda) Clifford married c.1460 Edmund Sutton (Dudley)
    27. Dorothy Sutton (Dudley) married c.1473 Richard Wrottesley
    28. Jane (Joan) Wrottesley married c.1500-10 Richard Cressett
    29. Margaret Cressett married c.1535 Thomas More
    30. Jasper More married 1572 Elizabeth Smale
    31. Katherine More married 1611 Samuel More
    32. Richard More married 1636 Christian Hunter
    33. Susanna More married 1675 Samuel Dutch
    34. Susanna Dutch married 1705 Benjamin Knowlton
    35. Susannah Knowlton married 1739 Josiah Dodge
    36. Josiah Dodge married 1761 Hannah Conant
    37. Mary Dodge married 1784 Cyrus Warner
    38. Miriam Warner married 1825 Foster Ketcham
    39. Milan Ketcham married 1861 Sarah Harper
    40. Ransom E. Ketcham married 1891 Nancy Jane Campbell
    36. Fay S. Ketcham married 1915 Halleck F. Gray
    37. Ruby J. Gray married 1935 Alton H. Rogers
    38. Alton E. Rogers married 1958 Yoshiko Takenaga
    39. Victoria C. Rogers married 1983 Lester L.T. Letoto

    A. Rogers aer437@yahoo.com




    Father: WILLIAM I (NOTES) DE WARREN (L) DE WARENNE b: BET 1034 AND 24 JUN 1088 in VARENNE, NORMANDY, FRANCE
    Mother: GUNDRED GUNDRADA (NOTES) FLEMING OF (L) ENGLAND b: BET 1048 AND 1075 in FLANDERS OR NORMANDY, FRANCE

    Marriage 1 ISABEL ELIZABETH (NOTES) CREPI (L) DE VERMANDOIS b: BET 1058 AND 1100 in VERMANDOISE, PICARDIE OR VALOIS, BRITTANY OR PICARDY, FRANCE
    • Married: BET 1112 AND 1118 in FRANCE
    Children
    1. Has Children WILLIAM III 3RD EARL OF SURREY (L) DE WARENNE b: BET 1081 AND 1119 in LEWES, SUSSEX, ENGLAND OR VERMANDOIS, FRANCE
    2. Has Children ADA ADELINE OR GUNDRED (NOTES) (L) DE WARENNE b: BET 1104 AND 1124 in LEWES, SUSSEX OR HUNTINGDON OR SURRY, SURREY OR WARWICK, WARWICKSHIRE, ENGLAND
    3. Has Children ELLA OR ELA (L) DE WARRENE OR DE WARENNE b: BET 1108 AND 1118
    4. Has Children REGINALD LORD OF WORMGAY WARREN (L) DE WARENNE b: ABT 1120 in VERMANDOIS, NORMANDY, FRANCE
    5. Has Children AGNES (L) ? OR DE WARENNE COUNTESS OF MAR b: BET 1100 AND 1130
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