Davis - not a tree but a forest

Entries: 166493    Updated: 2013-03-26 20:56:18 UTC (Tue)    Owner: Richard Ervin Davis

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  • ID: I109367
  • Name: Fergus Mor Mac Erc, King Of Dal Riata
  • Given Name: Fergus Mor
  • Surname: Mac Erc, King Of Dal Riata
  • Sex: M
  • Birth:
  • Note:
    Sources for this Information:
    parents: [Ref: Moriarty Plantagenet p28], father: [Ref: Michael Davidson SGM 10/23/1995-115700, Moriarty Plantagenet p243, Weis AR7 #170]
  • Death: 501
  • Note:
    Sources for this Information:
    date: [Ref: Michael Davidson SGM 10/23/1995-115700, Moncreiffe RoyalAnc p20, Moriarty Plantagenet p243, Moriarty Plantagenet p28] about 500 [Ref: Tapsell Dynasties p179] about 501 [Ref: Weis AR7 #170]
  • Event: Ancestral File Number AR:170-2
  • _UID: 76CE24BBF44F4004B164C67955F66537E5DE
  • Change Date: 9 Nov 2009 at 17:31
  • Note:
    Baldwin, Stewart, Ancestry of Fergus. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 2/9/1998-201954. Subject: Re: Kings of Scots & DalRiata + how far back?. Available at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/1998-02/0887055594. Author address: sbald at auburn dot campus dot mci dot net.

    Baldwin, Stewart, Kings of Scotland. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 1/21/1999-204428. Subject: Re: Kings of Scotland. Available at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/1999-01/0916951468. Author address: sbald at auburn dot campus dot mci dot net.

    Davidson, Michael The Genealogy of the Early Medieval Scottish Kings. Posting to soc.genealogy.medieval (email list GEN-MEDIEVAL) on 10/23/1995-115700. Subject: The Genealogy of the Early Medieval Scottish Kings. Available at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/1995-10/0814449420. Author address: M dot R dot DAVIDSON at SMS dot ED dot AC dot UK.

    Moncreiffe, Sir Ian of that Ilk, Royal Highness: Ancestors of the Royal Child. London: Hamish Hamilton, 1982. NYPL ARF 83-3293.

    Moriarty, G Andrews, Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III And Queen Philippa. Salt Lake: Mormon Pioneer Genealogical Society, 1985. LDS Film#0441438. nypl#ARF-86-2555.

    Tapsell, R. F., Monarchs, Rulers, Dynasties and Kingdoms of the World. New York: Facts on File Publications, 1983.

    Weis, Frederick Lewis, Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, David Faris, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who came to America before 1700, 7th Edition, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1992.
    c500-c500: King of Dal Riata [Ref: Tapsell Dynasties p179]

    earliest ancestor that can be regarded as reasonably certain [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 1/21/1999-204428]

    established an Irish kingdom of Dalriada in Argyle, now Scotland [Ref: Weis AR7 #170]

    kingdom stradled Irish channel from Antrim to Argyll [Ref: Moncreiffe RoyalAnc p54]

    ruled for 3 years in succession to his brother, Loarn, appros 498-501 [Ref: Weis AR7 #170]

    The problem with trying to "push the envelope" beyond Fergus is that it has already been pretty much pushed to the limit as it is. Both Fergus and his son Domangart are very shadowy figures. St. Columba did not arrive in Ireland until after the death of Gabran, during the reign of Conall. It was about a hundred years later that Adamnan wrote his life of St. Columba, and about the same time (i.e., the late seventh century) that the annals become clearly contemporary. In general, the earlier annals were compiled later, based on whatever material was available at the time.
    Now, the kinglists of Dal Riata begin with Fergus, who appears to have been the leader who removed the seat of government of the Dal Riata from Ireland to Scotland (probably due to Ui Neill encroachments). This apparently occurred during the living memory of the oldest individuals living during the time of St. Columba, and it is reasonable to accept that basic information (although the dates certainly cannot be trusted to be accurate to the year), even though virtually nothing is known of the first three kings (Fergus, Domangart, Comgall).
    However, when you get back to the generation of Fergus's father, the whole scheme reeks of late invention. Loarn and Oengus, ancestors of the other two septs of the Dal Riata, are made out to be brothers of Fergus, but there is no guarantee that this was the case. It appears to be just the typical scheme in which the ancestors of the various competing groups are made into brothers in the "official" genealogy.
    Several possible scenarios suggest themselves.
    (a) The known genealogy originally began with Fergus, and when the genealogists made Fergus, Loarn, and Oengus into brothers, they invented the names prior to Fergus.
    (b) There was a genuine tradition that Fergus was the son of Erc and grandson of Eochaid, and when Loarn and Oengus were made into brothers of Fergus, they were attached at the appropriate place in Fergus's genalogy.
    (c) Fergus, Loarn, and Oengus actually were brothers, despite the very suspicious nature of the evidence.
    (d) None of the above. (Numerous other competing scenarios could be developed, all consistent with the meager surviving evidence.)
    All of the above scenarios are POSSIBLE. However, in my opinion, it is not appropriate to choose one of them to the exclusion of the others. Thus, I think it is best to cut the pedigree off at Fergus.
    Regarding the supposed marriage of Domangart, it is chronologically possible, but the evidence is late, and I am dubious about it. The connection between Brion and Eochaid Mugmedon should also be considered dubious. There is a lot that is suspicious in the early history of the kings of Connacht, and it is quite likely that the "brother" relationship between Niall and Brion (and others) was a later invention, similar to the case of Fergus, Loarn, and Oengus. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin SGM 2/9/1998-201954]

    Father: Ercc King Of Dal Riata b: Abt 400
    Mother: Misi

    Marriage 1 Spouse Unknown
    • Married:
    • Note:
      Sources for this Information:
      child: [Ref: Moncreiffe RoyalAnc p20, Moriarty Plantagenet p28, Stewart Baldwin SGM 1/21/1999-204428, Tapsell Dynasties p179, Weis AR7 #170]
    • Change Date: 9 Nov 2009
    1. Has Children Domongart Mac Fergus, King Of Dal Riata
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